[Brainstorm] Mana-less resource mechanics

[Dragoon]

Well, I wanted to brainstorm the ideas for a mana-less resource mechanic for a ccg. With mana-less I mean that you don't have to tap/exhaust/whatever cards to produce a resource or that you have to spend counters to pay for cards.

This doesn't mean I ment free cards, but more a system that allows you to play cards to a certain limit.

One of such mechanics, is for example, the Middle-Earth ccg (not of decipher). This game used an influence stat for players and for characters(?). Each card costs an amount of influence and decreases your influence by such an amount. The influence wasn't lost. But you could also play cards as followers of another card, using that card's influence stat. It made a pretty fun system.

I had an idea that uses turn phases to limit card play. In short, there were three phases (0, 1, and 2) And you could only play a 0 phase card in phase 0, etc. To advance a phase, you have to use the option to draw a card. Also, phase 1 and 2 restricted the amount of actions you could do before the phase ended. (4 and 1 respectively)

Are there other people who thought about such a system? Or is there any input from an existing system? Pleas share!

[cap.tiny]

there was a system that a table top game use, I dont remember the name, dream something. that the creatures gave you the amount of resources you had to use was based on how much you had out already. for example..

you start out with a creature that gave you X that you could use. so you could put out something(s) that cost X and then those creatures also had resource values to add.. your resources was never saved but each turn were added up, so if you 10 resources and spent 7 then the other 3 was just forgotten about and the next turn you counted up your resources again which depending on what you played could be more. but at the end of the turn your resources disappeared..

[Saethori]

Personally, I like the idea of resource methods acting more like currency. So you could gain a finite amount as a beginning-of-turn function (modifiable by cards in play, of course), spend some or all of it for the turn's purpose, and 'save' the rest for further turns.

Of course, it would require a way to prevent people from just saving up until they acquire something they have no right owning so early, but it could have its benefits.

[Dragoon]

A good currency method was used in the old Deadlands ccg. Each 'dude' had one-time play cost and an upkeep you had to pay each turn. This means you could play a big guy early, but that would hamper your play. Also, it had cards that had a positive upkeep, thus providing income.

Thanks for reminding!

Building from this, I was thinking about an upkeep only system. This means you start with a set amount of points and cards in play consume or increase those points. Now, if I only know how to fit action cards in this system...

[Saethori]

Upkeep? I like the sound of that, could be interesting.

(Might warrant a field of entry to let players keep a running total of how much upkeep they have to pay each turn, though.)

[cap.tiny]

positive and negative upkeep? idk but sounds like alot of work to me

[Dragoon]

positive and negative upkeep? idk but sounds like alot of work to me

Work in what way? Please be a little clearer..

Also, I would like to know what kind of resource systems others like.

[cap.tiny]

oh sorry about that dragoon..
what i mean about that is every upkeep having to add up each cards' resource together, whether it is giving resources (positive) or taking (having to pay for it) away resources (negative)

though i may be imagining it wrong... which knowing how i am is totally possible

I have played a game before (though dont remember the name) that at the start of every turn i had to look at every card, add up all the resources, then take away if needed (depending on card effects), and then adjust the total due to card effects. it really slowed the game down alot

[Dragoon]

Ah, thanks for the info...

[cap.tiny]

well the idea would be fine on the "small scale version", like that dream "something" game.. for example instead of having a variable resource on the card just have each card count as one of the card's type. that way there is alot less to keep up with. then some cards can have a special effect to boost. and every card is a resource then.

[xchokeholdx]

Another way to "balance" resources would be to tie them into the rest of the game mechanics, boosting stats, drawing cards etc.

for example, each turn you get 5 resources. to play a card cost x (the cost on the card). you can use 1 resource in battle to boost your stats by 1, and at the end of the turn, you can use 2 resources to draw one card. this way, players can decide for themselves what they want to do. maybe spare some resources for combat? or draw a fresh new hand at the end of the turn?

This is a system I am trying to balance now, and it it great fun !

[cap.tiny]

nice idea

[Dragoon]

NETRUNNER! No seriously, Netrunner had a two type cost system. One was 'bits' which was just a normal stat. And actions.

You could use actions to:
- Gain 1 bit
- Draw a card.
- Play a card.
- Activate a card.

If memory serves correctly. It's an excellent system.

Now I'm thinking of using it in my game

[Turonik]

There had been games that used similar restrictions like that, ie- play only X cards in X phase, and used the "take so many actions a turn and your turn is over" I ussualy never seen it implemented well.

But moving on. Mana and colorless systems are a dime a dozen and as such most people seem to thing they are the only way to go. It's a sad thing to me since I like some other costing systems.

L5R, Doom town, and Legend of the Burning Sands all used what I like to call a "currency" system where you had money and you can spend it on resources so you can get more money, very economic way of doing things- much more than games that have a limit of one "resource played a turn". In short, you have to spend money to make money.

But an example of what I consider one of the most unique, if not the most, Spycraft. It's a little hard to explain it but you seem to have played many ccgs so you may already know of it. if it not it's some what similar to warlord's costing system.

[Crovack]

One of my favorite mechanical ideas is one in which you use "life" as a resource.  This mixes with the idea of the positive/negative upkeep costs, but also allows for you to scale costs on cards based on immediacy.  I mentioned this idea in another thread where cards could use a suspend-like mechanic that scaled the cost based on how long you waited for it to come into play.

You can also allow for things like YuGiOhs traps that are free to play face down but involve a cost when activated.  These may have expensive but powerful abilities.  They could also be powerful but situational abilities that had a cheaper cost.

There's a variety of ways in which you can make 'single resource' a complex but interesting mechanic, particularly when you allow the equivalent of 'burn' that attacks your opponents resource directly.  By having this it would mean that someone who dropped a ton of life to play big stronger cards would make themself vulnerable to just being shot in the face to death.

You can also allow for benefits from your positively generating upkeep cards, such as "cards of X type cost Y less or Z less per turn to maintain".  The most powerful cards should only be realistically maintainable with other cards set up to help them.  You could add spells that helped as well, such as "reduce all upkeep costs by half until end of turn" or "ignore the upkeep of a single card this turn".